When we start voting based on slanderous “facts”
By 
Shan-ul-Hai •
July 30, 2008
People have a variety of reasons to choose McCain (or Hillary) over Obama. Some are fairly legitimate (although I disagree with most of them); some people liked the idea of a woman running the show, some people think that McCain’s low-level military experience gives him an advantage, and some people think that McCain’s Senate experience gives him an advantage. If you really think that those issues are important, then I understand why you wouldn’t vote for Obama.
But what I find interesting is the plethora of slander that he’s had to deal with. Some people don’t like him because they think he’s Muslim, others don’t like the idea that he went to a madrassa in Indonesia, and yet others actually believe that his middle name somehow links him to Saddam Hussein. The newest of these slanderous outbreaks is the widely misreported statement claiming that he believes himself to be a symbol of American tradition.
Here’s what he was reported to have said:
“I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions.”
Here’s what he actually said:
“It has become increasingly clear in my travel, the campaign, that the crowds, the enthusiasm, 200,000 people in Berlin, is not about me at all. It’s about America. I have just become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions.”
Yes, he said that he was a symbol of America, but he was actually downplaying his own significance. He was trying to say that he’s not the one that attracts popular worldwide; rather, what attracts attention is the promise of America’s future. He said that, in the eyes of the Germans and others, he is only one symbol of that American future. He didn’t say that he symbolizes America, as the reporter made it seem.
Yes, he may be a little bit arrogant… but it’s hard not to toot your own horn when you’re running for President. He has to try hard to downplay his own background and abilities only because his background and abilities are so strong (trust me, it’s not easy to make the strides that he made at Harvard Law School and in Chicago). Would you rather have a President who has nothing to be arrogant about or a President who tries hard not to talk about how great he obviously is?
Popularity: 47% [?]
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Campaigns based on slander, lies, hate, and fear-mongering are what fascism is all about. Before Bush’s facade of competence collapsed, he and his henchmen could use the “We’re at war!” shtick to browbeat the opposition into submission, but since they’ve lost the mantle of “America’s warriors,” the fascists have had to resort to the meaningless slogans, baseless accusations and general desperateness that have been ushering out from the McCain campaign of late.
“When you can’t win on issues, you must lie, lie, lie” is obviously in the Rove handbook.
Nice spin! I’m glad you guys know how to interpret his stuff..cuz..I usually believe what people actually say is what they actually mean. But, you know, I guess I’m just an idiot fascist conservative for not being able to understand liberal speech!
You know, like when he says he wants to raise taxes, I really think he wants to raise taxes. When he says he intentionally sought out marxist professors in college as his mentors, I really believe that is what he meant. When he says he’s going to use public financing, I really thought he meant that. When he said that Pastor Wright was like family, was his mentor for 20 years, and spiritual advisor - I really thought he meant that too. When he said our troops were raiding villages at night killing women and children or that the surge wouldn’t work - I really believed he meant that as well.
I guess it’s just me!
Yes, he wants to raise taxes. I think we need higher taxes (like all developed countries) to pay for things like alternative energy research.
Yes, he sought out Marxist mentors in college. Have you ever actually read Marx’s work? It’s very different from the Stalinist Soviet Union.
Yes, he was friends with Wright. Personally, I have plenty of good friends (and family members) who express opinions with which I strongly disagree. Don’t you?
Yes, he said the surge wouldn’t work… he’s not a military expert, so he’s allowed to be wrong about predicting the future once in a while… just like how a lot of people said that Iraq had WMDs and that we needed to go to war there. Also, how do you define whether or not the surge “worked”? We’re still at war, aren’t we?
But that’s all irrelevant. The issue here is the difference between taking a statement out of context and taking it in context. I’m pretty sure that what I wrote here is fairly obvious… it didn’t take a whole lot of “spin” or “interpretation” as you say.
In this particular case, it was clear that Obama was trying to downplay his own significance; he was clearly saying that it’s America (rather than Barack Obama) that is attracting large crowds of Berliners. Does that make him arrogant? Maybe. Is it a bad quality? I don’t think so. It’s hard not to be arrogant when you’re so good at what you do… look at Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Bobby Fischer, etc… when you’re clearly the best, you usually know it. We’ve just gotten so accustomed to mediocrity (i.e. Bush) that we expect our President to be an average person rather than an eloquent genius.
Okay - we’ll take each of those one at a time:
We don’t need to raise taxes for alternative energy research - while the government is complaining about record oil company profits, the government has taken in almost $100 Billion in taxes just from the oil companies alone in one quarter. The government took in more from oil taxes than oil companies made in profits. Tell the government to put some of that back in to alternative energy research instead of their pet pork projects.
Umm..yes..I have read Marx, as well as Rawls, Nielsen, Locke, Hobbes, and more like them. Sorry, but Marx was a devout socialist. It’s already been proven that socialism and communism don’t work. It’s not good for this country and we don’t need political leaders who think it is.
No, I don’t associate with anyone who preaches hate. I don’t have anyone in my family who is racist or bigoted like Wright. Have I come across people like that in my life? Yes, but I immediately made a decision to never associate with those types of persons. Something Obama should have done the first time Wright started preaching that hatred of Black Liberation Theology.
He’s applying to be the Commander in Chief. He needs to understand military strategy. When he doesn’t understand, he needs to listen to our military leaders who do. He dismissed Petreus (sic?) outright. Sorry, I don’t want a CINC who refuses to listen to his military leaders in a time of war. That’s how Viet Nam got all screwed up.
I guess the fact that we are experiencing the least amount of civilian and military casualties over the last quarter isn’t proof the surge has worked? Or, the fact that the Iraqi government is able to start working towards political goals in a unified fashion without worry of having one of the leaders kidnapped and executed isn’t proof? Yes, we are still at war..and..we will be at war for a very long time. Maybe not in Iraq, but, everywhere else in this world where terrorists continue to slaughter innocents just because they don’t believe in Islam. This is a GLOBAL war on terror. There are terrorist attacks by muslims occurring daily around this world. You just have to know where to find the information since it certainly is not being reported by our U.S. media.
I still disagree - it wasn’t taken out of context. He clearly stated the world was waiting for a leader like him. That’s pretty arrogant. We don’t need arrogant leaders. We need humble, yet strong, leaders. Arrogance leads you down the road to ignorance - i.e. Clinton. All of those individuals (with the exception of Bobby Fischer) you named are not arrogant. They are confident, humble, and down to earth individuals. While I do agree with you that Obama is charismatic and does speak with eloquence, I would not call him a genius.
Nice chattin again!
I think that a lot of your points are oversimplifications of complex issues.
Whether or not the government is spending too much money is a separate point… that doesn’t change the fact that our taxes are lower than most other developed countries and that our national debt is still in the trillions. That aside, Obama’s plan actually recommends lower taxes for the middle class… the overall taxes are higher, but only the top income group will pay for it. Coming from a person who will soon be in that top income group (I’m a medical student), I’d be happy to take on the responsibility of higher taxes along with my higher income.
This isn’t a contest to see who has read more philosophers’ work. Yes, Marx was a socialist, but Marx’s philosophy was completely benevolent… there’s nothing wrong with understanding how it works. I think any intelligent person knows that communism and Marxism don’t really work in a real society… and we both know that Obama doesn’t plan on implementing communist ideals. To say anything else would be ridiculous.
I’m glad that you have a uniform family. I know that I’ve had plenty of friends/family whose opinions I strongly disagree with, and I enjoy their company because it gives me the opportunity for intelligent debate. I don’t shun people just because they disagree with me; much to the contrary, I like to expose myself to all sides of a story. I’m not saying that Wright was correct, but I don’t expect his close friends/family to abandon him just because he said something controversial.
Military strategy is complicated. Different experts say different things, and the bottom line is just a question of what your goal is. We can only tell whether the troop surge worked when we look at it retrospectively… we may have quelled some violence in Iraq for now, but we won’t know the real results until a few years from now. We’ve seen a rise in extremist activity in other parts of the world and many of them blame the troop surge as one of their driving factors. There’s also a good chance that the Iraqi civil war will go back to its original intensity after we leave. Obama didn’t vote against the surge because he thinks he knows better than Petraeus… he did it because it didn’t fit with his vision of where the country (and the world) should be headed. Whether or not you agree with his vision is a separate question.
To “clearly state” that “the world is waiting for a leader like him”, he’d have to clearly state that the world is waiting for him. Instead, he said “it has become clear in my travel… that the crowds, the enthusiasm, the 200,000 people in Berlin, is not about me at all. It’s about America.” How is that “clearly stating” that the world is waiting for him? He specifically said “it’s not about me at all”.
If you don’t think that Michael Jordan is arrogant, you’re obviously not a basketball fan.
I call Obama a “genius” because his (unconfirmed) IQ is well above the “genius” threshold. He also got a high enough score on the LSAT (which is directly correlated with IQ) to get into Harvard Law School, which means that he’s probably a genius. If that’s not enough, then he also graduated at the top of his class at Harvard Law School, which means that he was probably among the most intelligent of that elite class (of course, that’s just speculation).
Thanks for the intelligent debate.
Congrats on the MD thing (I’m working on my Ph.D.)..I’m sure you’ll do well.
Let’s put it this way - sure, they may be complex issues, but, I have make my point as concisely, clearly, and simply as possible, otherwise, I would be writing a book here!
If you would like..I could REALLY detail all my responses to you - which would take up a lot of your time to get through it! Considering you’re a med student..I’m sure you really don’t have that kind of time to spend on a dissertation length response to your posts! LOL
You can pay your higher taxes. I for one want to keep my money and spend it on whatever charities or causes of my own choice..not the ones the government chooses. My initial response there wasn’t about how they spend it..it was in response to you saying taxes should be increased to pay for alternative energies. My point is they don’t need to..they already have enough from big oil to invest it.
Regarding what Obama said:
“this is the moment, as Nancy [Pelosi] noted, that the world is waiting for.”
“It has become increasingly clear in my travel, the campaign — that the crowds, the enthusiasm, 200,000 people in Berlin, is not about me at all. It’s about America. I have just become a symbol. I have become a symbol of the possibility of America returning to our best traditions”
I grabbed the whole quote..you were right..I was wrong. I mistook that with the part where he has annointed himself as the symbol of America. Pretty much the same arrogant point..just different words.
Okay - if you’re going by IQ scores as the definition..sure..I’ll give you that one technically - yes - probably a genius - but - you can have a high IQ and still be clueless, out of touch, and have no common sense.
All the other points..while I won’t necessarily cede my positions - I don’t think its necessary to belabor the points.
Agree..nice chattin!
Unfortunately, I think Obama means everything he says. Which could be bad for the United States of America. It is not the Government’s job to provide health care, insurance, or anything else for me. The only reason we need *limited* government is to keep society from sliding in to a state of constant anarchy (such as is in the Middle East).
Also, it isn’t the job of Government to research alternative energy. Look at everything the big G has screwed up over the past two hundred years. NONE of the innovations in Technology has come from the Government. NONE.
Leave the R & D to the private sector. Let the masses keep more of their money (read less taxes) and you’ll have a more productive, economically stable society.
And for the record, at the moment I am not voting for either a republican or a democrat for the office. They both suck.